《万世巨星》2000版耶稣扮演者Glenn Carter在2018年11月的采访。访谈主要是宣传《艾薇塔》18英巡，当然，卡特作为一个四舍五入演了一辈子的JC专业户，JCS也是不可避免的话题。
Credit：英字 by OliviaY
从万年替补到万世巨星
John Hannam: Delighted to welcome Glenn Carter to John Hannam Meets, nice to meet you.
Glenn Carter: Yes, lovely to meet you too.
约翰：非常荣幸邀请到了格伦卡特来到今天的遇见约翰汉娜节目。很高兴见到你，卡特。
卡特：很高兴见到大家。
JH: Currently you’ve been touring with Evita, which is a wonderful show, coming to the Southsea King’s, the13th to the 17th of November. Lovely old theatre, real Matcham theatre, and… have you everbeen to the King’s before?
GC: I’m trying to wrack my brain if I have or not, actually. Probably – ‘cause I’ve been to so many theatres – but I can’t actually remember it specifically to be honest, so may be not. Maybe it’s going to be a new experience.
约翰：听说你最近在巡演艾薇塔，那是一个超级棒的音乐剧，将会在11月13号到17号巡演到南海国王剧院，那是一个非常可爱的老剧院，由曼彻姆亲自设计。卡特，你之前去过那里吗？
卡特：我在大脑里拼命翻找我到底有没去过的记忆，但最终只能说，可能去过。因为我去过太多剧院了，坦率的说我没法精确地记得每一个的细节，所以也可能没去过，那将会是一个全新的体验。
JH: Jesus Christ Superstar,Grease, Joseph, Whistle Down the Wind,Les Mis, Jersey Boys… you’ve done a few shows haven’t you?
GC: One or two, yeah, I’ve been very blessed. Very blessed.
约翰：万世巨星、油脂、约瑟夫的七彩圣衣、微风轻哨、悲惨世界、泽西男孩……你演了好多好多音乐剧，不是么？
卡特：演过那么几个，我一直深受神眷。
JH: You went to the Art’s Educational School, looking back, was that a really good move for you?
GC: Well at the time I went there, it was the only accredited musical theatre course, so…I’d done some acting privately with an acting coach– Colin Skipp his name was, he used to be Tony Archer on The Archers…
约翰：你在艺术教育学校就读过，现在看来，你觉得那是个好选择么？
卡特：是的，我之前去过，那里有当时唯一认证的音乐剧培训课程。在那之前我有私下向科林斯基普学习表演，他曾经在The Archers剧中演过托尼阿奇尔。
JH: Oh I used to listen to TheArchers!
GC: He’s…unfortunately he’s deceased now, but I worked with him, heused to do text (?) and stuff with me for a couple of years before I went to Arts. In fact I wasn’t really sure… I worked in pop music, what I was doing was tour managing for bands, and I was also acting. So I wanted to act, and I did music. I didn’t ever think about putting them together in musical theatre,‘cause I didn’t know really that it existed. I’d never been to theatre, I wanted to act in film, in television, and I never really knew about theatre that much, didn’t go as a child.
And then… I worked with a pop group and I was just chatting to a couple of the support act, a couple of musical theatre trained people, and they said ‘oh you should… you do music and you’re an actor so you should go to musical theatre school’. And the only one that you can go to really is Arts. So I just applied and got in and went there. I had no concept of what it was going to be like. In fact at the time I was touring with the pop group Imagination…
约翰：噢，我听过The Archers！
卡特：很遗憾他现在已经过世了，但我在去系统学习音乐剧之前曾经和他共事过几年。事实上，我不太确定……我最早是从事流行音乐业，为乐队做管理工作，同时也接一些表演。那时我既做音乐也做表演，但从没想过把它们结合在一起，我完全不知道世界上有音乐剧这种东西存在。那时我不太有剧院的概念，小时候从没去过，于是那时我只从电影电视接表演活儿。后来，我在一个流行音乐项目里工作，和几个群演聊天的时候，他们提到音乐剧，说“你既做音乐又做演员应该去考虑下这个方向啊”。当时能提供音乐剧课程的就那么一所学校，所以那是一个很自然的选择。我申请的时候其实对这些毫无概念，事实上，我当时在跟Imagination的巡演……
JH: Were you?
GC: …yeah I was their sort of… I was bumped up to the tour managing slot just because their tour manager was taken ill, and I became the tour manager for a while. And I left the tour early, there’s this course that started on Monday, it was Saturday night and I should really fly back from wherever I was. So I quickly booked a flight, and I was literally that blasé about it. And then… here we are.
约翰：哇，真的么？
卡特：……是的，我当时很偶然的接到它家巡演管理的职位，因为他们之前的巡演经理病了，于是我暂替了他的职责。但我在巡演结束前离开了那个项目，因为音乐剧课程是周一开始，我必须在周六晚上飞过去。于是我匆忙定了张机票，我那会儿其实没想那么多，然后……就是大家看到的样子了。
JH: Leee was a great front man.
GC: He’s still a very good friend of mine in fact…
JH: Is he? Lovely!
GC: …yeah, he’s an adorable person, and we were very close and we still are. I love him, he’s a great guy.
JH: I’ve interviewed him about three times and he’s such fun.
GC: Yes, he’s fabulous. He’s doing an archive film of Imagination now, he’s trying to get all the old footage together – interviews they’ve done – and put it together with anarrative…
JH: Is he?
GC: Yeah he’s been editing it for a while now.
约翰：李是一个非常棒的主唱。
卡特：他其实还是一个非常棒的朋友。
约翰：真的？好赞！
卡特：是的，他是一个非常惹人喜欢的家伙，我们当时关系很好，现在也是。我很喜欢他，他是个超有意思的人。
约翰：我访谈过他三次，他真的超有趣。
卡特：是的，他超棒，他最近在做一个Imagination乐队的纪录片，他想把所有的老画面都放进去，包括那些所有的访谈，然后加入叙事。
约翰：真的哇？
卡特：是的，他已经剪辑了好些日子啦。
JH: Glenn, in the early days – after drama school or school – you sort of did rep didn’t you, in the early days?
GC: Yes, I did a few little things, never enough. I always wanted to do more, you know, I wanted to do… if I could’ve stayed in rep for five years I would’ve done. But I was just fortunate enough to be employed to do three jobs, one after another in a… like in Nottingham Playhouse, then I went to DerbyPlayhouse, and did four or five things there. But I would’ve done that for ten years if I could’ve, you know, every season be doing three or four things. But it just didn’t work out like that. Because in musical theatre, if you’re doing well, you generally get contracted for years at a time, or a year at a time. So you’d be having one experience, whereas somebody else will be getting twenty different experiences of different things – TV, the odd job, you know – so there’s good and bad of both styles.
约翰：离开戏剧学校之后，你接了好些剧，对吗？在早期的时候。
卡特：对，我接了些剧，但数目远远不够，我想接更多剧。我一开始非常幸运的接到了三个，在诺丁汉剧院。后来我去了德比剧院，在那里接了四五个，如果我能这么演五年十年我是很乐意的，每季接三四个剧这样。但事情不是这样的，因为在音乐剧行业里，如果你干得不错，你可能会得到一份几年的长约，或者至少是一年的。这样，当你演这一个音乐剧的时候，其他人可能演了二十个音乐剧，或者电视剧，或者别的什么稀奇古怪的剧。所以…有利有弊吧。
JH: Jesus Christ Superstar was quite important for you, particularly early on, wasn’t it?
GC: It was. I mean I’d understudied for so many years, I became the person that, if there was a principal who maybe thought of as having – I mean they didn’t know whether the principal had an ego, ‘cause they hadn’t worked in musical theatre before, but because I didn’t have one particularly in that respect – like I went, I did my job, I got on, you know, I did my understudy call. If I didn’t go on I didn’t mind so much. I did my job – and my job in the ensemble was as important as his job as far as I was concerned – so I didn’t really ever need to go on, I didn’t have that in me.
So I just became really useful to understudy what they perceived would be potentially difficultegos. And I don’t want to use the word ‘stuck’, but I was stuck as an understudy. Big management and producers wouldn’t even see me for major roles,they would only see me for understudy roles. And to take over from… it was always like… I mean I’d understudied for Phillip Schofield, Jason Donovan, ShaneRichie…did I say Craig McLachlan? You know, lots of principals. And none of them were actually difficult, they were all lovely, but I guess management don’t know that when you first get them. And I just got really stuck into what was a rut for me, and I just had to start saying ‘no’, going out of work. I was totally employed for… I didn’t have a day out of work for more than a decade,doing that.
约翰：万世巨星是你早期一个非常重要的剧目，对吧？
卡特：对，我是指，在接万世巨星之前，我做了好多好多年的替补。我变成了那种，如果有哪个主演可能会撂挑子（事实上不一定，但因为主演们通常是第一次接音乐剧所以没人知道他们会不会耍大牌），就会随时准备顶上的那个替补。其实，我是觉得给他们做替补的工作和我做群演的工作同样重要，但总之，我不是很在意这种事。于是，每当他们觉得某个主演估计有点不大靠谱的时候，就经常选我去做替补。我不想用这个词，但我确实感觉我“陷”进这种替补角色中了。高管们和制片人从不会在主要角色中考虑我，只会给我各种替补。我做过Phillip Schofield, Jason Donovan, ShaneRichie, Craig McLachlan等等很多主演的替，事实上他们没人不靠谱全都超可爱啦，但管理层第一次用他们的时候并不能确定这一点。总之，我就那样陷进了一成不变的替补生涯，我最后不得不开始说“不”，不再接替补工作。在此之前的十多年里，我一直不断的替补替补和替补没休过一天假。
JH: You went from Simon to Jesus didn’t you?
GC: I did yes. Again,that was when I was just breaking that mould. I’d turned work down for a good nine months or so and I wrote my first record deal then, for another artist – for a girl singer – I wrote a record for Phonogram, so I was nine months out of work – which was my first time out of work – which was when I was trying to break the mould.
And I was auditioning for Jesus and I had a bleed in my vocal chords, which has happened once in my entire – well maybe twice now – in my entire career. I’ve got a natural varicose vein in my vocal chords and it always get quite hoarse – husky – when,you know, if I’m tired. Couldn’t finish the audition process. And because they said ‘oh you should be in the show’, they gave me Simon without auditioning,and then I took over Jesus after that.
约翰：你后来从西门演到了耶稣，对吧？
卡特：对。那时我决定要打破模子，于是结束了替补生涯，之后九个月我都没有再接任何剧，而是写了人生中第一部专辑，给Phonogram公司的一名女歌手。音乐剧演员生涯的第一个长假之后，我去试镜了耶稣，我那时声带出血（整个职业生涯里我声带还出血过一次还是两次，这导致我疲劳的时候声音会沙哑），于是没能走完整个试镜流程，但他们觉得希望我加入剧组，于是就免试给了我西门。后来我又接替了耶稣的角色。
JH: You ended up on Broadway didn’t you?
GC: I did yeah. We ended up – in fact the same production went – well the same director and staff– we did it three times with her, the West End one – the one we’re talking about – then we made the film of it that came out for the millennium – which was a slightly different production, different designer – and then that went to Broadway.
约翰：最后你那部剧去了宽街？
卡特：对，我们那部剧，或者准确的说是同导演的那部剧，最后去了宽街。我们和她一起做了三个版本，我们之前一直谈论的西区版，然后是00电影版，那版的舞美设计和之前的有点不一样，最后去宽街的是第三版。
电视剧跨界尝试
JH: You won a few awards too didn’t you?
GC: Yeah, I did yeah. I always have the thought process, if I take notice of the awards – the odd award – that maybe I’d been fortunate to be given, I’d also have to take notice of the awards I was ignored by, so I tend to just… not even think about it.
约翰：在万世巨星之后，你得过好些奖对吗？
卡特：对。我有的时候会想，如果我去关注那些我有幸得到的奖，那么我就不得不同样去关注那些我不幸没有得到的奖，于是我就倾向于……别去想这种事了。
JH: Ironically Glenn, some of your early TV roles you were playing ‘Jesus’ weren’t you?
GC: Yeah I did, I played…Jesus was a film, it was a film called Nine Lives, by Simon Monjack, which was nine men and women in a drugs rehab centre. Privileged people – rich people – who found their way into narcotic or alcohol abuse or whatever, and it was called Nine Lives and I played a character called Jesus, but obviously it was spelled Jesus. So I played Jesus, then Jesus, and then Jesus again, which was three different versions of a character.
约翰：格伦，很好玩的是，好些你早期的影视角色中也是出演的“耶稣”对吗？
卡特：是的，我在一部 Simon Monjack导演的电影Nine Lives中演过一个叫“耶稣”的角色，那部电影是讲九个在药物滥用康复中心的人们的故事，他们是人生赢家，但他们也是药物或酒精滥用者，我演的是其中一个叫耶稣的人。因为我演过耶稣，然后又演过耶稣，接着再演过耶稣，尽管它们仨只是同一部剧同一个角色的三个不同的版本，但总之，这个耶稣也找上了我，虽然这个角色只是名字叫耶稣而已。
JH: When you went to The Bill, it wasn’t Jesus, I think it was a guy called Scott Lewis, you did a one-off in The Bill…
GC: Yes, gosh yeah, you’ve done your research on that, yeah. I did yes, it was a double episode that was eventually edited down to one episode, yeah.
约翰：但你在The Bill里演的不是耶稣，我记得是一个叫Scott Lewis的角色，你演过一集……
卡特：对，是的，你的研究做得很细，是的，我演过这么个角色，它其实是有两集，但后来剪成了一集。
JH: Good shows, The Bill, weren’t they?
GC: They were fantastic, and they were a great place for actors like me to start learning about television, you know, because it had such a high turnover of people, you know, and people… like for example, Ben Richards was in The Bill and became a regular, he was… I think he was second cover to Kenickie in Grease when I was first cover, do you know what I mean? So, like it was great, like The Bill, and Doctors, and Adrian – who’s been on Doctors for ten years – was second cover Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar. So those regular TV shows, dramas, were like rep, they’ve almost taken the place of rep, where actors can go in and play a small role,and maybe go back, and you know, to learn their trade in television. They were fantastic things, The Bill, so sad when it ended.
约翰：The Bill是一个超棒的电视节目。
卡特：对，那种节目很棒，它们是给我这样的演员学习进入电视界的绝佳场所，你知道，因为它们的演员流动性很大，比如，Ben Richards在演了The Bill之后正式成了电视咖，他之前在音乐剧《油脂》里是做的Kenickie的二替，当时我是一替。所以，你懂的，The Bill这种节目真的太棒了，还有Doctors，Adrian在Doctors节目里演了十年，他之前是在《万世巨星》里做犹大的二替。那些TV秀和音乐剧其实很像，而且某种意义上取代了音乐剧，演员们可以进去打个酱油，作为踏足电视的第一步。它们真的是非常棒的存在，The Bill后来完结了，那是个悲桑的故事。
JH: That was near Wimbledon wasn’t it?
GC: Yes it was.
JH: ‘Cause I went there a couple of times and you sort of wander along…
GC: It was an industrial park in Morden, it was very strange…
JH: …yeah, and they said ‘oh that’s the boss’s office, and that’s something else’… and it was absolutely terrific.
约翰：记得The Bill的拍摄地靠近Wimbledon？
卡特：对。
约翰：因为我去过那里几次，在那里转悠的时候……
卡特：对，拍摄地是在Morden的一个工业园，这比较特别……
约翰：……对，我当时去的时候他们一直说“看，那里是剧中的老板办公室，那里是剧中的巴拉巴拉”，超酷哒。
JH: Doctors, you mentioned, you did Doctors didn’t you?
GC: Yeah I did an episode of Doctors…
JH: Hollyoaks?
GC: Yeah I did Hollyoaks. They’re just great ways to learn your trade you know, to learn… they’re such a different environment. I mean my drama teacher used to say ‘there’s no such thing as overacting, it’s good acting and bad acting, you’re either good or you’re bad, she used to say. But I don’t actually think that’s true, I think if you look at – for example, some of Tom Cruise’s early auditions that you can see on Youtube and stuff, if you look at those – however good Tom Cruise maybe, he wasn’t then. But it’s not that he can’t act, it’s the style, he’s not got the style down. And working in theatre, it’s a different style. It’s a slightly more heightened style than it is on television or film. To have somewhere to go to learn how to refine yourself and how small you have to be, it’s like talking to a microphone. When you’re talking into a microphone you have to imagine you’re whispering into someone’s ear, not on stage where you’re projecting something, do you see what I mean? It’s just all different styles and to have programmes like The Bill, Hollyoaks, Doctors, where they take lots and lots of actors from all walks of acting, from musical theatre, from (?), you know, dancers who’ve never acted can go in there, and just play a part because they’re good enough for the role– or else they wouldn’t have got it – and learn their style, it’s so important. So important.
约翰：你前面提到Doctors，记得你有演过对吧？
卡特：对，我演过一集……
约翰：还有《圣橡镇少年》？
卡特：对，我还演过《圣橡镇少年》。它们是很好的学习跨界的机会，你知道，它们是一种完全不同的环境。我是说，我的戏剧老师曾经对我说过，“没有什么所谓的演过头，只有演得好和演得烂，你演的只能要么好要么烂”，但我觉得不是这样的。我觉得，如果你看，比如说，阿汤哥，如果你去油管上看他的早期作品，会发现和后来那个大家觉得演得好的阿汤哥很不一样，但他早期的时候并不是演不了，只是风格不一样，早期的他没有把风格沉下来。在剧院演戏比之于在电视电影里是一种完全不同的风格，需要演得更用力些，所以去电视节目练习怎么调整自己的表演，演得更细腻些是很重要的。比如说麦克风的使用，当你在影视剧中使用录音麦的时候，你需要假想自己在跟人耳语，而不能用在台上演出时拼铁肺的发音方式。我不知道我有没有表达清楚。它们是不同的风格，所以像The Bill, Doctors，圣橡镇少年这样的节目就很棒，能让各种表演风格比如说音乐剧出身的演员，甚至跨行来的零表演经验的舞者歌手，都可以在里面参演，只要你演得够好，你就能拿到角色，如果你演得不够好，你也得到了一次学习影视表演风格的机会，这非常重要，非常非常重要。
JH: You played Jack the Ripper didn’t you, at one point?
GC: Yes I did, very briefly, in…
JH: Was it Psychoville?
GC: Pscyhoville, yes I was trying to think of the name of it, yes Psychoville.Yeah, it was fabulous, great fun.
约翰：你也演过开膛手杰克对吧？
卡特：对，只演过很短一段时间，是在……
约翰：是在《疯城记》里?
卡特：对，是在《疯城记》里演的。我刚刚在努力回想它的名字，是的，那是个很棒的剧，我演得很开心。
泽(转)西(型)男(逗)孩(比)
JH: And you’ve faced Loose Women, you’ve been on Loose Women haven’t you?
GC: Only as a Jersey Boy, I would always like to have been interviewed,‘cause it really annoys me when they go ‘you know what men are like’… really annoys me, do you know what I mean? Like ‘they can’t talk about their feelings’… used to drive me nuts! But I’ve never been interviewed on there, no we just went on as the Jersey Boys.
约翰：你上过Loose Women节目对吧？
卡特：只作为泽西男孩上过。我一直非常喜欢接受采访，但他家总喜欢问那种很烦人的“你觉得男人应该是什么样的”之类的问题，真的非常烦人，你知道，那种“真男人从不表达自己的感受”诸如此类的……简直能把我逼疯！所以，”我”从来没有去过他家的访谈，只有”泽西男孩”去过他家的访谈。
JH: Yes. Talking of Jersey Boys, you played Tommy DeVito in that didn’t you?
GC: Yes, I was the original Tommy…so fortunate to get that role,‘cause I was up for Bob the pianist, and the writer in there. I was up for a different part altogether… which I wasn’t right for at all. And I walked in there, and the American casting director – the casting director in Britain is Jill Green but they were working in conjunction with the original American casting directors – and I learnt, I think, three or four scenes, and a piano piece to play the piano.
I walked in and she said ‘oh my word, no, you’re not a Bob, you’re a Tommy. Take this script and come back in half an hour’. So I had to quickly learn the best I could, read and learn three scenes in half an hour and went back and then… I somehow got it, which I couldn’t believe! When they said ‘do you want to go up for the Jersey Boys?’No! It sounded to me like a strip group, you know, like the Chippendales, the Jersey Boys! It just sounded to me like that! So I didn’t know about it, and as soon I started getting into it – and catch some clips on Youtube – what a phenomenal script and brilliantly put together musical that is. And I was fortunate enough to be the original Tommy.
约翰：哈哈对，说到泽西男孩，你在里面演过托米对吧？
卡特：对，我是原卡托米……我幸运的拿到了这个角色。其实我一开始是去试镜钢琴家鲍勃这个角色的，一个完全不同并且完全不适合我的角色。当我走进去的时候，看见这剧的美国选角导演也在，她和英国选角导演Jill Green一起联合选角。我之前准备了鲍勃的三四幕戏和一个他会在剧中弹奏的钢琴曲。但我一走进去，美国选角导演就说，“天哪，不不不，你不是个鲍勃，你是个托米，把这份剧本拿去，半小时后回来。”于是我只好在半小时里疯狂练完托米的三幕戏再狂奔回去，然后……我不可置信地发现自己拿到了这个角色。当他们问我“你愿意演泽西男孩吗”的时候，我心想“才不呢，泽西男孩什么鬼，听起来像个脱衣舞男，Chippendales那种”。那会儿我对它一无所知，直到我进组之后，去油管上搜了下，才发现原来那是一个那么现象级的本子那么天才式的音乐剧，而我能成为原卡托米简直运气爆棚。
JH: Were you a Four Season’s fan before you went in?
GC: I didn’t realise I was. Like I didn’t know…
JH: You knew all the songs…
GC: Yes. You know, ‘Oh What a Night’ was one of my favourite songs as a ten year old, and there were some amazing songs they did that I didn’t know were theirs. I’d heard them over the years and thought ‘what a fantastic songs that is’, but I didn’t know that it was theirs, ‘cause so many of their songs were covered. So I knew their songs sung by other people mostly, when I found out it was them I couldn’t believe it.
约翰：你在进入泽西男孩剧组之前是四季乐队的粉丝吗？
卡特：我没意识到我是，就像我不知道……
约翰：你知道它家所有歌……
卡特：对，你知道，他家的Oh What a Night是我十岁的时候最喜欢的歌之一。还有好多他家的超棒的歌我听了几十年但一直不知道原来是他们的，因为，你知道，他们的歌被很多人翻唱过，而我经常是听的翻唱的版本，于是，当我发现那些歌原来是他们家的时候，我简直不敢相信自己的眼睛。
从棋王谈流行音乐作曲
JH: And Chess was such an odd subject for a musical, but it was a hit musical
GC: That, I still say that Chess the musical is quite possibly the best score I’d ever heard, and it is in my view the most sophisticated musically, considering it was written by two pop writers, who write naff pop songs. But they aren’t, they’re incredibly sophisticated pop songs. ABBA are amazing, sophisticated writers, the structure of the way they write etcetera, from the way they write.
I’ve had four record deals as a writer, and if I could write one song of which they’ve written thirty, I would be so happy. They’re so sophisticated. But, the musical theatre… Chess – and I know they’ve done another couple of [?] – is incredibly sophisticated. I love it, and I put that album on my headphones and listen to it – and I don’t listen to musical theatre – it is so fabulous. And all the songs you know from it –the pop songs – are the worst songs on it. The worst pieces of music on it.
约翰：《棋王》对于音乐剧而言是一个非常奇怪的存在，但它同时也是一部热剧……
卡特：那啥，我得说，我坚持认为音乐剧《棋王》可能是我听过的最棒的歌，以及我个人认为的最复杂精巧的歌，考虑到它是由两名流行音乐作曲人创作的，但其实这歌一点也不”流行”，作为流行音乐它们太复杂了。ABBA真是非常天才的富于技巧的作曲家，你从他们写这歌的思路，从他们写这个的结构等等中可以看到。我也是一个流行音乐作曲人，我写了四张专辑了，但如果我能有一首歌写到他们那三十首歌的程度，我会开心得每天笑醒的。《棋王》太精巧了，我爱它爱到把那张专放进了头戴里天天听，你知道我头戴里从来不放音乐剧的，但它们实在太好听了。所有那些你们熟知的歌，那些热门歌们，都只是里面最难听的那些。
JH: When they were on Eurovision and sang that original song ‘Waterloo’,you never expected it to develop, because it was okay, it was sort of song written for that really wasn’t it?
GC: It was, and because of the roots of where their musical education came from, they changed the format of pop music. Pop music was written, obviously it was started by Bill Haley really, the sort of rock and roll style and formats, first chorus, first bridge, chorus, middle eight etcetera, so it’s a bit boring perhaps. But ABBA, they did… if you look at them they had five sections to most of their songs. No other writers had ever done that before – no other pop writers – so ABBA changed and developed the formatting of pop music, which is incredibly difficult to do.
约翰：当他们上Eurovision节目去唱初版《滑铁卢》的时候，你不会想到它会进化成后面的样子，因为那样就很好了，它是那种写得恰到好处的歌，对吧？
卡特：对，得益于他们所植根的音乐剧教育背景，他们改变了流行音乐的范式，把流行音乐写得更摇滚风格，是从Bill Haley开始的，第一副歌、第一桥段、副歌、中八节等等……这可能听起来有点无聊，但ABBA……你可以听听他们的专辑，他们的大部分歌由五部分构成，之前从来没有哪个流行音乐作曲人这么做过，ABBA改进和发展了流行音乐的范式，那是一件非常非常难做到的事情。
JH: When I look back on my life, I started, sort of ‘How Much was That Doggie in the Window’ and all that stuff, and then Presley and Bill Haley and then the Beatles and ABBA, looking back, it’s been a fantastic time for music.
GC: Yes, within one full lifetime. Absolutely, incredible.
约翰：当我回视过去，我发现，我的人生从《橱窗里的小狗怎么卖》开始，然后是Presley，是Bill Haley，再然后是披头士，是ABBA，回想起来，这真是一个音乐的黄金时期。
卡特：是的，在短短的一生中，目睹这么多天才音乐的涌现，真太令人难以置信了。
JH: You’ve done a few Royal Variety Shows, you’ve done about half adozen at least…
GC: Yeah, five or six yeah. And a Children’s Royal Variety I think is in there amongst the five or six, yes. I’ve been just really fortunate‘cause the shows I’ve been in have often been original casts – not always – and they’ve been hit shows. I’ve just been very fortunate in that way, what can I say.
约翰：你还做了好些慈善秀吧，应该至少有半打……
卡特：对，做了五六个，我非常幸运，因为好些我做的慈善秀都是原卡…并不是所有都是原卡，但它们都是热秀，我得说我真的太幸运了。
JH: I think everyone you interview Glenn – everyone I’ve interviewed over the years – they’ve always had that stroke of luck somewhere, which you need don’t you?
GC: I think you’ve just got to be present, in the sense that, like if someone said to me ‘would you do this show for nothing, we can’t afford for you to get paid’ and I think the show is worth doing, I would do it for nothing. If I’m not working, I may as well be working and earning nothing, than not working, if the piece is a good piece. So I think you’ve got to be able, or certainly of the mind of ‘I’ve got to do this for my own development’ as well as ‘how much do I get paid’.
约翰：格伦，我觉得这些年来我访谈过的每个人，都总是在某些方面非常幸运，感觉幸运是一种必需品？
卡特：我觉得必需品是去做去参与，比如如果有人问我“你愿意没有酬劳的做这个秀吗？”而我觉得那个秀值得做，我会不计报酬的去做的。如果我觉得一个东西不错，而我正闲着，那么我会愿意没有任何回报地去做它，而不是啥也不做。所以，我觉得重点是得行动起来去做点什么，或者转变下想法，把“提高自己的能力”看得跟“能拿多少报酬”同等重要。
JH: Years ago, sort of acts or groups that supported top names, they often did a tour for virtually nothing, just to get established.
GC: Just to get the name out there, just to get the presence, just to get people talking.
约翰：很多年前，有好些刚出道的艺人或组合会零薪参与知名艺人的巡演，只求建立名声。
卡特：对，只求扩大知名度。
歌手的高光时刻和未竟的创作梦
JH: You write songs with your brother don’t you?
GC: I did. Scott now - he’s my younger brother - I started off literallywanting to be a writer, that’s what I wanted to do. That was the thing I thought I’d always do. I mean I was writing songs since I was nine years old, you know, best as I could into a tape machine. I couldn’t play an instrument yet, and started to learn the piano and stuff.
But my brother and I started to work together probably around when I was twenty-two, twenty-three, and we wrote a record deal together. We wrote about twenty songs, signed to Phonogram, with a singer - with another singer. Although I’ve been a singer all my life I never knew what style I should do, ‘cause I could do several different sounds and styles, and ‘cause I came from musical theatre, I didn’t really know who I was. So I worked with singers whocould one thing, that was them, that was their style, which I found easier to work with, writing for their sound. And we got a record deal in the end. The record deal didn’t work out, it was with Phonogram, and they fired their MD, and the heads of department rolled and we were put on hold and then our singer left the band…you know, all that sort of stuff…so it didn’t work out in the end. But Scott now, he’s one of the top sound engineers in live theatre in London.
JH: Is he?
GC: Yeah, he mixes Book of Mormon at the moment, and before that he did Superstar, Woman in White, Joseph…gosh, you name it…Matilda, everything.
约翰：你是和你兄弟一起合作写歌的对吧？
卡特：对，和我的弟弟斯科特。我最初的梦想是成为一个作曲人，那是我一直一直想要去做的事情，我是说，我从九岁就开始写歌了，那会儿我甚至还连一个乐器都不会只会听磁带。也是从那会儿我开始学习钢琴学习乐器。而我和我弟合作作曲实际上是我二十二三岁时候的事情了，我们当时合作了一张专辑，写了大概二十首歌的样子，签给Phonogram家的一个歌手，是别的歌手不是我自己，虽然我四舍五入做了一辈子歌手，但我一直没找到我作为歌手的人设应该是什么，因为我可以唱好几种不同的声音不同的风格，因为我出身于音乐剧，我很难回答我是谁这个问题。所以我和那些有稳定单一人设的歌手合作，我发现为他们写歌为他们的某一种确定的风格写歌会更容易。总之，我们当时写完了那张专，但最终专辑没有发出来，因为Phonogram当时开掉了他家MD，流行音乐部门的头头脑脑们出现了很大的人事变动，和我们合作的歌手离开了乐队……你知道，所有的事情全凑一块了……所以最后那张专没能落地。但斯科特现在是伦敦剧院的顶尖现场音频工程师之一。
约翰：他现在做工程师了？
卡特：对，他现在在做摩门经的混音，之前是万世巨星，再之前是白衣女郎、约瑟夫的七彩圣衣、玛蒂尔达等等等等。
JH: Some of your career highlights, Prince’s Trust Concert you did…
GC: Yes that’s right. I was artist liaison on that, that again was when I was working with Imagination, because they were performing in it, and I did the Prince’s Trust Concert, I was artist liaison… there was Phil Collins, who else was on… it was one of the most incredible things I ever saw. I’ll tell you about that ‘cause it’s really interesting - well I think it’s interesting - there was [?] on the coconut [?], Sade, Phil Collins, Imagination, Paul Young I think was there as well… I loved Phil Collins, covered some of his songs… and so I just happened to come around and sit in the Royal Albert Hall - huge big venue - and he was just playing a piano, so he was just there with his piano, no accompaniment apart from the piano.
When it came to his big moment in ‘In the Air Tonight’ where the drums come in - if you know the song - I kept thinking ‘how is he going to do that little drum break? There’s no drummer on stage, what’s he going to do?’ As he was singing it, as he was building up to it, he just did one held chord - stab chord - and the entire Albert Hall went ‘[drum noises]’… so everybody provided it. And it was such a magical moment, that he knew was going to happen - I’m sure he hoped it would happen - that just electrified all of the audience inthe whole place. And people screaming and shouting, applauding, it was an incredible moment to sit and witness, I mean it sent chills.
约翰：来聊聊你职业中的那些高光时刻吧，我记得你上过Prince’s Trust音乐会？
卡特：对，我是那场音乐会的artist liaison[是一种艺术管理类别的职位，没查到准确的对应中文]，那会我还在为Imagination乐队工作，因为乐队被受邀参加音乐会，于是我也参加了。那场音乐会去了很多人，Sade, Phil Collins, Imagination，印象中Paul Young应该也有去。我超喜欢Phil Collins，翻唱过他的好些歌，当时我恰巧在Royal Albert Hall里，看见他在台上独奏钢琴。然后他的光辉一幕出现了，他弹到了’In the Air Tonight’里应该有鼓点声插入进来的地方，我当时想“可台上没有鼓手啊，他该肿么办”，结果他弹唱到那里的时候发出了一个类似鼓点的尖锐声音，于是整个大厅里的人全都加入进来发出了那个类似鼓点的声音，那真是奇妙得仿佛魔法一样的时刻，他知道这会发生他希望这会发生而这真的发生了，整个大厅里的观众全都燃了起来，人们尖叫鼓掌，目睹整个过程的我被深深的震撼了。
JH: You did a Wembley rugby match too didn’t you?
GC: I did yeah, I think officially I think I was the last person tosing live at Wembley.
JH: Were you?
GC: It was the opening of the first professional world rugby championships I think. I was playing Jesus and I had to sing ‘Jerusalem’, ‘God Save the Queen’ and something else I can’t remember, and Alison Jiear, who’s a fantastic musical theatre singer - sang the Australian national anthem, ‘cause it was England and Australia, so she sang before me, and I sang afterwards, ‘cause it was in England, so I think… and then once that competition ended, the old Wembley stadium was then closed. So I think… unless anybody sang after me, but I think I was the last person to sing live at Wembley stadium.
JH: Jerusalem always makes me cry that song, it’s just one of those things, you know…it is that type of song isn’t it?
GC: Yes it is.
约翰：你还唱过温布利橄榄球赛对吧？
卡特：对，我觉得我应该是最后一个在温布利正式献唱的人。
约翰：肿么讲？
卡特：我参加那次是第一届世界职业橄榄球赛事的开幕式，我当时扮演耶稣，并唱了耶路撒冷、上帝拯救女王等等一些歌，而另一位音乐剧歌手Alison Jiear，唱了一些澳洲的颂歌，因为那是一场英澳联办的赛事，而当时英国是东道主，所以她先唱我后唱。然后……那次之后那个赛事就停掉了，老温布利体育场也关掉了，所以我想……除非哪天它重新开门办展，否则我应该就是最后一个在温布利体育场唱现场的歌手了吧。
约翰：耶路撒冷那首歌每次都听得我内牛满面，它是那种，那种，你懂的，那种歌。
卡特：对，是这样的。
JH: You performed at the Tony Awards too didn’t you?
GC: Yes, I was fortunate enough to be invited to sing ‘Gethsemane’ for the Tony Awards. It was at Radio City Music Hall, which I think is the biggest stage in the world. It is literally like a football field, hugely wide stage, and it was a packed house. It was a phenomenal experience, wonderful. Televised to all of North America, and I don’t know why in Britain we kind of only just occasionally do those things well. Like the Olivier Awards, I wish they were televised just like the Tonys are.
JH: When you were doing that, did you for one minute think of how many people were probably watching?
GC: I just thought of ‘don’t bugger this up’. Even though I’d sung Gethsemane a thousand times, younever know where your brain’s going to go in a given moment, you know? You can be incredibly disciplined and still, your brain just sort of fractures for a few seconds, it’s a strange phenomenon - especially if you start thinking like that. So yeah, all I can remember thinking is ‘don’t bugger this up’.
JH: And it’s such a great song.
GC: Ah it’s incredible. You know, I think - I’ve said it many times - that I think it’s the best song ever written for a leading man in the musical theatre genre to sing, by a long way. Dramatically, it’s journey; melodically, what it demands of the actor, the singer; what it demands emotionally… I think it’s by far the most taxing and the best song ever.
约翰：你还在托尼奖上演唱过对吧？
卡特：对，我非常幸运的受邀去托尼奖上演唱客西马尼，在Radio City Music Hall，我觉得那是世界上最大的舞台，字面上的大，台子超宽差不多有一个足球场大。那是一个现象级的时刻，演出是对全北美电视直播的。我不知道为啥我们英国不肿么干这种事儿，比如奥利弗奖，如果也像美国的托尼奖一样电视直播多好。
约翰：你当时唱的时候有一瞬间想过有多少观众在看吗？
卡特：我当时脑子里只有一个念头“别唱砸了”，虽然我唱了快一千遍客西马尼了，但你永远不知道你大脑会在某一瞬间飘到哪里去。你知道，你可能只是安安静静规规矩矩的在唱歌，但你的大脑有几秒钟会忽然就断片了，很奇怪的现象，特别是当你去想有多少人在看的时候尤其容易发生。所以，我能记得的我当时脑子里唯一的念头就是“别唱砸了”。
约翰：客西马尼是一首非常棒的歌。
卡特：对，非常棒的歌。我以前也说过，它是那种你所能想象的写给音乐剧主演的最棒的歌。戏剧性强、旋律优美、对演技对唱功对情绪表达的要求都很高……我觉得那是迄今为止最考验音乐剧演员功底的好歌。
JH: You play what, saxophone, keyboard, guitar…
GC: Yes, I play them all badly, that’s the thing. I play them only for my own pleasure and to write really. I’d spent my musical sort of life learning to write and format, how to structure a song and stuff, as opposed to learning to play songs. So I can play a dozen instruments, but only what I write. I’ve never learned to play other people’s music, I can improvise on them but that’s about it.
JH: Glenn if you could write for one particular person, say if you had a stunning song, who would you like to record it? Someone you’d love to write for?
GC: Yes, I’d love to write for London Grammar. I think London Grammar areone of the most exciting, beautifully structured, beautiful, melodic, wonderful singer bands around, I think they’re incredible. And if people don’t know who London Grammar is, I would suggest that everybody goes out and gets their first or second album. I mean obviouslybest to start at the beginning, so I’d say first first and second second. But it’s such beautiful music, and it’s modern, and it’s just… it’s wonderful.
约翰：你平时弹什么乐器比较多？萨克斯？键盘？吉他？
卡特：都有弹，但全弹得很烂。我弹乐器一般只自娱自乐或者写歌用，我更愿意把我的空闲时间花在学习作曲编曲，而不是花在学习演奏乐器上。所以，虽然我会十多种乐器，但都仅限于写歌用，我没有练过其他人的作品，虽然如果有需要我也可以现学现卖。
约翰：格伦，如果你能为某个特定的人写歌，假想如果你写了一首非常喜欢的歌，你会希望谁来唱它？有谁是你想要为他写歌的吗？
卡特：有啊，我想为London Grammar乐队写歌，我觉得他们是最令人振奋最旋律优美最结构精巧的乐队之一。如果有谁不知道London Grammar的话，我建议他们去买他家的一专或者二专，额，之所以说一专二专，是因为我觉得最好从头听起啦，但他们家所有音乐都非常优美，非常现代，非常迷人。
JH: So Evita, you’re playing Che.
GC: Yes!
JH: Good part isn’t it?
GC: It is. It is fun. I mean it’s not Che Guevara, I don’t think - although I’m dressed like Che Guevara - I don’t think Che Guevara ever sang anote. It’s interesting, he’s not really part of the story - he’s the narrator - so he’s not having any dramatic moments really, with Eva or anything like that. He’s just commenting and guiding the audience through the process.
JH: Shows like Blood Brothers, you know, they’ve got a narrator haven’t they? So it’s interesting isn’t it, when a performer comes on and sort of guides us through the story really.
GC: Yeah, I mean I talk directly to the audience in their eyes, which is unusual for the theatre obviously, ‘cause usually you pretend the audience aren’t there. But Che is talking directly to them for the majority of the time, almost like the continuity presenter of the show. Whereas Eva and Juan Peron don’t do that at all, or any of the other characters. In fact Che is invisible to most people on stage all of the time.
JH: You’re off to Germany aren’t you?
GC: Yes, we’re doing a couple of weeks. I did Jesus in Germany about three years ago - did six, seven weeks there - which was fantastic. We did a tour of the opera houses, and this - Evita - is going there for just a couple of weeks in January.
约翰：说回艾薇塔，你是演的che对吧？
卡特：对
约翰：很棒的角色。
卡特：对，非常有趣的角色。我不是指他是Che Guevara这点有趣，虽然我穿得很Che Guevara，但那其实不是，我不认为Che Guevara会唱一个音符。很有趣的点在于，他并不真的是故事中的一部分，他是一个叙述者一个旁白，他和艾娃和贝隆都没有任何戏剧互动，他只发表观点只带领观众们走完整个剧情。
约翰：很多音乐剧比如Blood Brothers他们都会设置一个旁白，这很有趣，有一个演员在带着观众去看剧情。
卡特：对，我是指，在剧院，有一个演员直接和观众对话是一件不太常见的事情，大部分时候演员们需要假装观众们不存在。但在整部剧的大部分时刻，che都会直接和观众对话，而艾娃、贝隆以及其它演员们都不会这样。事实上，大部分时候在观众们的眼中che都是一个隐形的存在，尽管他在舞台上。
约翰：你接下来是要去德国对吧？
卡特：对，我们会去几周。我三年前去德国巡演过六七周，演的耶稣，那次经历很赞，我们巡演了好些剧院。而这次是去巡演艾薇塔，明年1月的时候会过去巡演几周。
JH: So, any dreams left for you then?
GC: I’ve been writing, as I said, all my life. Pop music has been particularly irritating, in the sense that I’ve had several record deals and they’ve all fallen through for one thing or another, and none of them have been down to the music, which has been incredibly frustrating. And it’s felt almost like I’ve wasted years of my life doing this.
So I think the thing I really want to do more of is write. And I wrote a musical, back - gosh, a few years ago now - and it was with a West End producer. And for a couple of years, they were very interested and they wanted to put it on in fact, and it was just deemed as too controversial - it had lines from the Quran in it, and various other things - and they just thought it was a bit too controversial in what it was saying. So I wrote another musical, which is a traditional historic piece, it’s kind of Celtic music…but it’s areally interesting story, so I’m hoping I can focus more on that.
JH: Whatever you choose to do, I hope you fulfil what you choose to do.
GC: Thank you.
约翰：你有什么未了的心愿吗？
卡特：我差不多写了一辈子的歌吧，但怎么说，流行音乐真是让人没脾气，虽然我写了好多张专了，但它们全都因为这样那样的原因没有发出来，这让我非常挫败，就像那些年的人生全都被浪费掉了一样。所以如果说有什么心愿的话，我想那一定是写歌。我也有写音乐剧，几年前我写了个音乐剧本子，和一个西区制片人合作的，当时他们对那个本子挺有兴趣想排出来，但后来他们觉得那个本子题材有点争议，然后就没有然后了。于是我又另外写了一个本子，是一个传统的历史剧，凯尔特题材，故事很好玩，我希望以后能专注把这个做成吧。
约翰：无论你选择了什么，我都祝愿你能实现你所选择的。
卡特：谢谢。
JH: Great to talk to you. So you’re with Evita, Southsea Kings, 13th to the 17th November, and then of course, Germany.
GC: Yes.
JH: Can I thank you for your time, on a busy day, I know you’ve got two shows today haven’t you?
GC: Yes we do, two shows. I warm up a lot, so I tend to just spend my mornings warming up.
JH: Do you?
GC: I’m not really a natural… I mean I’ve been singing all my life really, but I’m not a natural singer, in the sense that I can’t wake up in the morning and immediately sing. Whereas Mike - who plays Juan Peron in this - literally just does it, just sing. He’s just got the most beautiful voice you’ll ever hear, and he’s a fantastic singer. Whereas for me I always have to work hard on it, so I warm up for about two hours before I do the official warm up here.
JH: I love yourstubble and your hair…
GC: Oh I hate the stubble, I don’t like it! I feel like a vagrant, especially coupled with my long hair, I feel like I should be living under a bush and not… you know what I mean? I just don’t like it. As soon as this job is over it’ll be coming off.
JH: You could still play Jesus as you look today couldn’t you?
GC: Ironically I never had a beard playing Jesus, not when I was on the film.
JH: Glenn Carter, thank you so much.
GC: Thank you.
约翰：和你访谈真是一件非常愉快的事情，那么，你的艾薇塔将在11月13-17号巡演到南海国王剧院，之后是德国，对吧？
卡特：对。
约翰：谢谢你在繁忙的一天中抽出时间，我记得你今天有两场演出。
卡特：对，我们今天有两场秀。我早上这时候一般是在热身开嗓，我热身时间有点长。
约翰：肿么讲？
卡特：我不是那种天生的……我是指，虽然我四舍五入唱了一辈子歌了，但我不是那种天生的歌手。我没法做到早上起床就能唱好，而迈克，也就是艾薇塔里演贝隆的演员就能做到字面意义上的想唱就唱，他有天生的好嗓子，而对我来说我需要非常努力才能做到，所以在剧组组织的热身之前，我一般得自己额外花两小时提前热嗓。
约翰：我喜欢你的头发，还有胡茬……
卡特：噢漏我可讨厌我的胡茬了，我觉得自己像个丐帮弟子，特别是配上我这头发，感觉我像是每晚睡在灌木下……你懂的，我可讨厌它啦，等我巡演完我要第一时间剪掉。
约翰：哈哈哈，我觉得你今天的装扮可以直接去演耶稣啦。
卡特：才不！其实我在电影里演耶稣的时候是光溜溜的。
约翰：卡特，谢谢你来到我们的访谈。
卡特：谢谢大家。