American Idiot是一部描写千禧年间美国小镇青年们去大城市寻梦的故事，剧中用了不少富于时代特性的元素与事件，比如伊拉克战争，比如青少年药物滥用，但如同JCS一样，我觉得AI并不将目光仅仅投视于对某个特定历史时期特定历史群体特定历史事件的浓缩再现，而是试图在做好前者的同时，去探讨一些更具有普遍共性的话题。就如同同时在JCS中担任犹大扮演者和在AI中担任圣吉米扮演者的Tony Vincent所说的，JCS探讨的是人与神的关系，AI探讨的是人与自己的关系。从它们的导演选择更为抽象的艺术表现手法开始，就注定了它们所探讨的话题并不局限于具象的故事本身。
我的观点是存在必然性，这三个怀揣梦想面临着”if i come or go”的问题两难于留在小镇还是外出寻梦的男主，面临着的其实是从古至今一直植根于人类血液中的两个矛盾的特质——开拓与守成——的冲突。开拓，让人类走出非洲走向七大洲五大洋去寻找更多的资源；而守成，让人类深耕细做提高现有资源的利用率从刀耕火种走到原子时代，它们彼此矛盾却又奇妙地共存贯穿于每个单一个体与人类群体整体的生命周期之中，是人类发展进步的原动力之一。在剧中，选择为孕育孩子而留在小镇的Will象征了这种守成的特质，选择为追寻梦想而离开小镇的Johnny和Tunny则象征了这种开拓的特质。
选择留在小镇的Will从选择开始的一刻就产生了心结，所有人都离开了，作为仅有的一个选择留下的人，他感受到了一种强烈的”everyone’s out without you”的社交拒绝，尽管留下是他自己的选择而非have no choice，尽管他做出这一选择也许是因为他爱女友Heather想要与她建立更为深厚更具支持性的长久关系，也许是因为他认为血脉存续拥有后代是对抗自己生命有限性的最重要的事，也许是因为他认为简单的小镇生活能让他把有限的时间精力更多的focus在他心爱的吉他上，但强烈的社交拒绝感淹没了他，他觉得自己被朋友们抛弃了，他渐渐变成了一个沉迷酒精的couch potato，他不再弹吉他不再关心妻儿他与Heather日渐疏远。守成的意义在于排除存在极大不确定性的新事物的干扰集中精力把现有的事物经营得更好，但Will已无心经营,他现有的一切并没有变好反而在gone sour，他找不到意义，他怀疑留下的选择是否正确，尤其当他看到选择离开的Johnny来信说到那些美好的”new faces new voices”真遗憾你没来的时候。
Johnny和Tunny首先遇到的是第一个问题。即使在大城市，吉他之梦仍然难酬。一开始，Johnny仍对一切充满信心和希望，但Tunny却开始变得消沉，他把自己关在屋里整日蒙头大睡。发现理想实现不了，Tunny选择了调整自己的理想，不愿”die without a name”的他，说服自己把吉他视作途径把成就事业青史留名视作目的，被电视中的征兵广告所吸引，决定去干一番大事业，尽管内心一直有个声音在提醒他”are we the waiting”这真的是他所想要的吗”unknown”，但他最终带着对第二个问题的困惑被裹挟着匆匆踏上了前往战场的路途。
而同样吉他梦遇挫的Johnny，却不愿调整理想踏上浸满鲜血的征途，也不愿接受不符理想找不到意义感的paperwork。但选择了不争夺也不将就，也就意味着一时之间”there’s no sign of hope”。理想受挫看不到出路，Tunny的转变离开让Johnny觉得孤独，一开始的他仍坚定的”walk alone”并”wish someone out there will find me”，当他在空无一人的街道上弹唱自己心声的时候，同样受困于孤独感与梦想遇挫但仍坚持做”the last of american girl”坚持”sing for the dawning of our lives”的女主Whatsername被那一刻直面现状却又坚持梦想无所畏惧唱出心声的他所深深吸引，打开了她的窗户和着他的曲调唱出了同样的心声。但慢慢的，Johnny越来越难忍受梦想不断受挫迟迟找不到出路所带来的自我怀疑的痛苦，他开始沉迷毒品，迷恋于毒品所带来的隔断挫折与失落之间传导机制只余喜悦的奇异效果，感受着自尊与自我效能的恢复。但在自尊表面恢复的同时，他的自我怀疑其实却愈见加深，他越来越离不开毒品。他把这个”girl of my dream”会爱上这个”full of shit”的自己但却”think i’m cute”的行为，归因为毒品让他成为了一个充满魅力的St. Jimmy式人物，St. Jimmy是他来到大城市后结识的，是Johnny心目中的理想自我概念的投射，是在”lost all your dreams”的”street of shame”上”come without any shame”地”bearing gifts and trust”成为人们”spark of the night”的”saint”。尽管Whatsername主动邀他约会与他同居甚至为他沾上毒品，但Johnny仍然不敢相信她真的爱着自己，甚至不敢对她说他爱她，觉得如果有一天她认清自己”full of shit”的本质一定会离自己而去，他陷入了完全的自我否定，认为自己”amount nothing”并自欺”this is how i’m supposed to be”。
堆积的矛盾总会有爆发的时刻。Heather不堪忍受丈夫的长期忽视和怨艾消沉，打包带着孩子离开，Will藏起她的包裹抱住她的腰也没能拦住她，没有了照顾怀孕妻子这个选择留下的外因的excuse，Will不得不面对留下的choice is his and his completely并思考这样的生活究竟是否他真正想要的。Tunny在战场上失去了一条腿，在陪护他做截肢手术的当地护士Extraordinary Girl生命永不重来放下武器的劝说声中，他不得不迫使自己面对一直以来回避思索的那第二个问题。Whatsername在Johnny沉迷毒品至显露出强烈的自毁与攻击倾向甚而丢了吉他以后，不愿看他继续消磨生命扔掉了他的毒品，但Johnny把这视为她分手的信号，因为他觉得没有人会爱失去毒品滤镜之后的那个身为”a mess”的自己，为了维护自尊他留书说自己从没爱过她离开了公寓，看到留书怒不可遏的Whatsername在最后一次对他吼出”wake up”没有收到回音后离开了他”without a trace”，他不得不面对沉浸在毒品构筑的理想自我幻梦中并不能让他实现梦想或是留住所爱的事实。
“Is it the end or just the beginning”? 我一开始的时候非常困惑于整部剧过去似乎什么也没有改变，如果说无论如何还算有得有失关上了门打开了窗，Will失去了爱人但得到了孩子，Tunny失去了一条腿但得到了愿意随他天涯海角共度一生的伴侣，那么Johnny呢？他曾沉迷毒品但最终戒掉了，他曾”met a girl of his dream”但最终失去了，他曾珍视吉他胜过一切但最终卖掉了。虽然我们可以说生活就是这样如西西弗斯的石头起起落落周而复始，历史上美国的那代”lost children”也大都并没有”find their way”，但我总觉得，这部尽管用词很丧但处处生机盎然充满热忱的音乐剧所承载的意义怎么看也不像告诉人们life is absurd大家一起拥抱虚无吧。直到在某一刷中我注意到了Johnny在谈到Whatsername时经历了三个不同的阶段。
Johnny的生活并没有改变，他得到的都又失去了他失去的都又回来了，但他的内心改变了，他从否定自我变得肯定自我，他从隐藏自我变得不再隐藏。这似乎于那些往事无补，正如Johnny所唱的”the regrets are useless”，但生命还长，我们可以想见，如果新的故事开启，尽管大概率会遇到新的问题，但Johnny至少不会再因自我怀疑而错过Whatsername，或是无法处理自己与St. Jimmy的主我与宾我、现实自我与理想自我的关系。
正如开拓与守成这对相互矛盾的特质始终贯穿于人类文明伴随着人类曲折向前的发展历程一样，对于Johnny、Tunny、Will每一个个体，或是他们所象征的历史群体，这两种特质也会一直伴随着他们的生命和成长，it’s an end and also a beginning。
最早的概念碟里，”alright I’ll die”这句是这一小节唱词的绝对核心，被唱得万分愤怒万分不甘，而对这句歌词的前后处理上，之前的发问已经带有了知道上帝不会回答的无力感，之后唱”just watch me die, see how I die, see how I die”的声音越来越低，直到被强烈的奏乐声取代，表现出一种JC越来越无力而命运越来越强势的感觉。
而随后的73电影版和71百老汇版，则将这一设定继续发展下去，”alright I’ll die”这句依然是这一小节唱词的高潮，并且愤怒感被处理得更强，为了配合这种表达，甚至将之后的唱词改为了”just watch me die, see how I die, just WATCH me die”，并且将最后一句的watch处理为重音，die则非常没有存在感。进行这一修改后整体上更强调了上帝的袖手旁观，这甚至有点与Judas’Death中犹大死前说的”and you know all the time”遥相呼应，表现出一种JC尽管不得不屈服于命运却强烈地控诉命运的感觉，并且控诉的不是命运的操纵，而是控诉命运对恶的不作为。
到了96版和00版，则对这里进行了颠覆式的重大改动，一方面，在”alright I’ll die”之前的所有词被处理成非常有力度的质问，而非之前版本不甘地疑问；另一方面，”alright I’ll die”这句词被极度弱化，弱化到轻得几乎只是JC的一句低声咕哝，与演唱配合的是不同于之前版本，这一段旋律的演奏也变得非常轻；而后第三方面，之后的唱词被改回了”just watch me die, see how I die, see how I die”，但不同于概念碟的处理，这三句词越来越强越来越强，最后JC的声音一直压着此后那段漫长的间奏（96版压完了00版压了一半），以至于直接导致了这一嗓子DIEEEEEEEE成为了大家此后去听JCS的一大预期，一旦演员没唱上去就感觉自己好像听了场假的JCS。
那么这意究竟是什么呢？对比前面两版，推测”just watch me die, see how I die, see how I die”人声越来越强且没有被间奏取代这一处理可以简单理解为JC的自我意志没有被命运压倒。但过轻处理以至于让人感到突兀的”alright I’ll die”代表什么呢？是die太沉重以至于接受它的时候JC有一瞬间快被压倒(所以声音低得近乎没有)？是JC认为肉体的die比之于精神的die不值一提（所以最后”commend his spirit”的时候会那么痛苦且强调”spirit”）？是强调JC对生命的珍视对世界的热爱（以至于说到他自己”will die”就极度不情愿到不愿大声说出来）？是想要强调JC做出”die的决定没有受到任何愤怒情绪干扰而是完全是他的理性选择（所以为与前后emotional的唱词区别开来而降低了音量）？或是别的什么？
但无论这次修改的意图是什么，它都无疑影响了之后的版本们。到被韦伯声称最符合自己原意（虽然他每版都这么说）的12演唱会版，仍然延续了这一突出see how I dieeeeeeeeee的表现方式，但不同于00和96的是，这一版尽管”alright I’ll die”的处理比起早期版本显得略轻，但咬字情绪上仍然延续了早期版本的愤怒不甘。
如同在JCS这部剧中所呈现的，无论JC的本意是什么，最终一切都变成了符号和仪式。客西马尼的see how I DIEEEEEEEEEEE，也和最后晚餐的俩男主跳上桌一样，变成了几乎每个版本无论主题是什么都一定会有的保留桥段。而我每次点开一个没刷过版本的JCS，也同样期待着。
1.作为同样的作者同样的题材同样的语言的作品，一粒沙和德扎之间有着太多的共性。比如象征性极强的舞美（我个人很吃僵尸舞这种表现life is absurd的方式），比如拖沓的剧情节奏（咳咳我真的不是黑），比如大量的多声部（配合德语的铿锵和编曲的直击人心简直震撼到爆），比如强烈的存在主义意味（甚至让人在没看剧情不知歌词的情况下只听音乐就能听出来），比如把抽象概念具象成角色的表现方式（一粒沙中死亡的具象der tod，德扎中音乐天赋的具象童年莫扎特）等等等等。
谈到一粒沙的象征性，最大的象征莫过于死神这个角色，死神这个角色的象征意味有很多不同的解读，我个人的理解是非常直接的字面der tod死亡。死亡对于伊丽莎白的意义，在Wenn ich tanzen will这首据说后来才写成加入剧中的曲目中表现得最为明晰。用女主角在mind快要消亡时想要kill自己的body却因body的求生欲而唤醒了mind的free will这样的情节来表现存在主义和女性主义的作品不少，但一粒沙描述中的伊丽莎白这样一生都主动把自己置于悬崖边钢丝上，呼唤死亡利用死亡却又拒绝死亡的，则相对较为少见，毕竟基于合理推断，对大部分人来说，一次濒死体验就足以改变一生了。对此，不同的版本提供了不同的解释，以92版为代表的版本，更倾向于用历史上伊丽莎白的抑郁症来解释，并在表演中将伊丽莎白的晚年处理得较为神经质，以05版为代表的版本，则倾向于用世界和超我的桎梏和压抑来解释，并在表演中强调世界的荒谬和世人的行尸走肉。
3.如果说一粒沙的主题是突破外在的桎梏找到自己，那么德扎的主题就是突破内在的桎梏超越自己。因此，如果说一粒沙的最体现主题的互动在茜茜和死神之间，那么德扎最体现主题的互动就是在大小扎之间。然而非常有趣的是，不同于一粒沙最体现主题的曲目Wenn ich tanzen will正好是一首茜茜和死神的吵架歌，德扎最体现主题的曲目Finale却是一首没有小扎参与的大合唱，不过当然，小扎全程都没有参与任何演唱就是了。
Rent
1.自从知道Rent今年会来国内，我就把这剧丢进了收藏夹，但几次点开都没能坚持过头三首歌，直到前晚再一次点开并鬼使神差地把进度条拖到中间，然后一秒被One Song Glory拉入戏，然后就开始完全停不下来，然后它就取代十周年大悲成为我心目中纸巾杀手no.1的音乐剧。这俩剧同样具有非常强的感染力，大悲的感染力更多的来源于作曲和演唱的talent and art，而Rent的感染力则更多的来自于编剧和表演的roar and earthy。
2.如果说一粒沙和德扎是讲life is absurd人应该break free去寻找自己突破自己，那么Rent就是讲一群找到自己想做自己的人怎么最终离开他们并不完美却无比深爱的乌托邦的。从第一次大合唱Seasons Of Love之后，整个下半场刀片雨接踵而来，我以为Angel的死会是最虐的，但看完之后却觉得那里算不上虐反而奇怪地觉得治愈，或许是因为Collins一直在他身边，或许是因为在这样的人类至悲面前会觉得所有的误解和藩篱都不过是人作茧自缚压根不重要，所以一粒沙里伊丽莎白每一次打破桎梏追寻自由都有死神在她前面开道，所以看得开的Joanne和Maureen立马不再纠结“take me or leave me”的问题，所以看不开的Roger和Mimi在亲身经历过一次生死大劫之后，终于也不再顾虑“baggage without lifetime guarantees”不再害怕“watch [each other] die”。
3.整部剧里我最猝不及防被虐到的不是Angel的死，而是Goodbye Love中Roger和Mark相互捅刀的那段对话；如同最猝不及防被治愈的不是最后的Mimi死里逃生与Roger好莱坞式的大团圆，而是What You Own的末尾，Mark和Roger终于重新找到了connection to each other and to the world的时候。大约作为一个写实向的剧，我预料到了里面会涉及到一些社会现象，但未预料到里面同样涉及到那些更普遍更永恒的话题。
8）就在我准备给这个版本下断语说最大的问题是JC的神性近乎看不到的时候，真正的长发戴着荆冠穿着兜裆布的JC无声地出现了并被祭司们钉上了十字架。Crucifixion这段不是由十字架上的JC说的，而是由捧着圣经的两个青年先后用英语和德语念的，但只念了圣经也有的三句，删掉了圣经里没有的谁是我妈和我口渴了两句，并把其中一句it is finished改为了一个人问另一个人is it finished并放在了最后成为全剧最后一句台词。
4）最后晚餐开场犹大不在使徒们中间，JC就拿了两瓶啤酒去找舞台边缘的犹大，还主动跟他碰瓶，然后开始唱“the end … ”，那段你以后吃饭喝酒的时候要记得我所有的“you”全是对着犹大唱的，真是又萌又虐。到 “look at your blank faces”的时候就变成对使徒们唱了，使徒们是真·一脸懵逼。整个最后晚餐绝大部分时候两人都游离在使徒们之外。第一段吵架镜头拍使徒们去了没看到吵架过程，入镜的时候是JC唱着“get out”把犹大的钱袋和犹大一起往门的方向拖行并丢在了地上，犹大爬起来往屋内的方向走把JC推在了地上，然后两个人在一阵扭打后JC再次被摔在地上，看着JC半天爬不起来，走远的犹大于是过去扶他，又被JC再次摔在地上。最后犹大唱“every time i look at you”的时候是背对着JC唱的，我正奇怪这是什么奇怪的舞台设计，结果唱到“you’d managed better”的时候犹大开始死命拍打自己的脑袋，我才恍然原来这版把这段台词处理为了犹大的自责而不是指责JC，值得一提的是，除了设计的巧妙以外，沙坑从拍打脑袋到拽上吊绳到脱力跪下的这一段表演也真心感染力炸裂。
5）客西马尼结束后，JC直接看到了犹大身后带着的祭司们，但他只是表情平静地点了点头，主动去拥抱犹大，犹大抬手想回抱但犹豫了下最终挣开了，就在我以为这版居然把Judas’ kiss 改成了JC’s hug的时候，犹大却突然去吻JC，被JC猛然挣开唱“must you betray me with a kiss”，犹大马上远远退开，这时候使徒们进来，而尽管到了这样的时候，犹大和JC依然表现出了极强的默契，犹大拦着彼得不让他动刀子两人扭打中被祭司们押住的JC开始唱“put away your sward”，彼得停顿，犹大借势把彼得丢开。
6）小记者之歌的时候，犹大就开始找祭司们讨要说法，但被祭司全程勒住脖子，直到“see it bleed”的时候才放开丢到JC面前，然后被小记者们包围逼退。Judas’ Death犹大在和祭司们争取无果后，远远看着带着荆棘王冠的JC，掏出小刀在同样的位置割破了自己的额头。
8）闹剧后人群散尽，在耶稣受难的十字架前，JC对着犹大念那句改编后的圣经文字“is it finished”，犹大回以JC德语的同样这句话。然后面朝彼此站着的两个人放松下来，犹大脱去了西装坐下来，JC脱去了荆冠也坐下来，但不再像开场的时候那样头挨着头躺着，而是脚对着脚隔着一定的距离坐着。而后犹大主动朝着JC的方向探过身子，去拿两人中间的那本圣经，然而在两人中轴线的位置支着身子把一本圣经翻来翻去好久后，JC仍只是在原处看着十字架，没有任何开口或是靠近的意思，于是犹大坐起身，抬头看了一眼十字架，拿起外套，对JC做了一个不知是goodbye还是follow me的手势，转头离开。犹大离开后，JC也起身，拿起之前犹大翻的那本圣经，犹豫了下最终丢下，最后抬头看了一眼十字架，也转身离开，朝着和犹大相反的方向。
看个AU设定版JCS也能吃到BE真是够了，看到安利中的“结束两人各自回家”的描述以为是see you tomorrow那种各自回家就放心跳坑，以为能吃到个HE的AU，却万万没想到是i can’t believe this is goodbye那种各自回家。虽然出乎预料被虐成狗，但我个人还是非常喜欢这个版本，等多刷几遍以后再详细写写。
John Hannam: Delighted to welcome Glenn Carter to John Hannam Meets, nice to meet you.
Glenn Carter: Yes, lovely to meet you too.
约翰：非常荣幸邀请到了格伦卡特来到今天的遇见约翰汉娜节目。很高兴见到你，卡特。
卡特：很高兴见到大家。
JH: Currently you’ve been touring with Evita, which is a wonderful show, coming to the Southsea King’s, the13th to the 17th of November. Lovely old theatre, real Matcham theatre, and… have you everbeen to the King’s before?
GC: I’m trying to wrack my brain if I have or not, actually. Probably – ‘cause I’ve been to so many theatres – but I can’t actually remember it specifically to be honest, so may be not. Maybe it’s going to be a new experience.
JH: You went to the Art’s Educational School, looking back, was that a really good move for you?
GC: Well at the time I went there, it was the only accredited musical theatre course, so…I’d done some acting privately with an acting coach– Colin Skipp his name was, he used to be Tony Archer on The Archers…
GC: He’s…unfortunately he’s deceased now, but I worked with him, heused to do text (?) and stuff with me for a couple of years before I went to Arts. In fact I wasn’t really sure… I worked in pop music, what I was doing was tour managing for bands, and I was also acting. So I wanted to act, and I did music. I didn’t ever think about putting them together in musical theatre,‘cause I didn’t know really that it existed. I’d never been to theatre, I wanted to act in film, in television, and I never really knew about theatre that much, didn’t go as a child. And then… I worked with a pop group and I was just chatting to a couple of the support act, a couple of musical theatre trained people, and they said ‘oh you should… you do music and you’re an actor so you should go to musical theatre school’. And the only one that you can go to really is Arts. So I just applied and got in and went there. I had no concept of what it was going to be like. In fact at the time I was touring with the pop group Imagination…
GC: …yeah I was their sort of… I was bumped up to the tour managing slot just because their tour manager was taken ill, and I became the tour manager for a while. And I left the tour early, there’s this course that started on Monday, it was Saturday night and I should really fly back from wherever I was. So I quickly booked a flight, and I was literally that blasé about it. And then… here we are.
GC: He’s still a very good friend of mine in fact…
JH: Is he? Lovely!
GC: …yeah, he’s an adorable person, and we were very close and we still are. I love him, he’s a great guy.
JH: I’ve interviewed him about three times and he’s such fun.
GC: Yes, he’s fabulous. He’s doing an archive film of Imagination now, he’s trying to get all the old footage together – interviews they’ve done – and put it together with anarrative…
JH: Glenn, in the early days – after drama school or school – you sort of did rep didn’t you, in the early days?
GC: Yes, I did a few little things, never enough. I always wanted to do more, you know, I wanted to do… if I could’ve stayed in rep for five years I would’ve done. But I was just fortunate enough to be employed to do three jobs, one after another in a… like in Nottingham Playhouse, then I went to DerbyPlayhouse, and did four or five things there. But I would’ve done that for ten years if I could’ve, you know, every season be doing three or four things. But it just didn’t work out like that. Because in musical theatre, if you’re doing well, you generally get contracted for years at a time, or a year at a time. So you’d be having one experience, whereas somebody else will be getting twenty different experiences of different things – TV, the odd job, you know – so there’s good and bad of both styles.
JH: Jesus Christ Superstar was quite important for you, particularly early on, wasn’t it?
GC: It was. I mean I’d understudied for so many years, I became the person that, if there was a principal who maybe thought of as having – I mean they didn’t know whether the principal had an ego, ‘cause they hadn’t worked in musical theatre before, but because I didn’t have one particularly in that respect – like I went, I did my job, I got on, you know, I did my understudy call. If I didn’t go on I didn’t mind so much. I did my job – and my job in the ensemble was as important as his job as far as I was concerned – so I didn’t really ever need to go on, I didn’t have that in me.
So I just became really useful to understudy what they perceived would be potentially difficultegos. And I don’t want to use the word ‘stuck’, but I was stuck as an understudy. Big management and producers wouldn’t even see me for major roles,they would only see me for understudy roles. And to take over from… it was always like… I mean I’d understudied for Phillip Schofield, Jason Donovan, ShaneRichie…did I say Craig McLachlan? You know, lots of principals. And none of them were actually difficult, they were all lovely, but I guess management don’t know that when you first get them. And I just got really stuck into what was a rut for me, and I just had to start saying ‘no’, going out of work. I was totally employed for… I didn’t have a day out of work for more than a decade,doing that.
约翰：万世巨星是你早期一个非常重要的剧目，对吧？
卡特：对，我是指，在接万世巨星之前，我做了好多好多年的替补。我变成了那种，如果有哪个主演可能会撂挑子（事实上不一定，但因为主演们通常是第一次接音乐剧所以没人知道他们会不会耍大牌），就会随时准备顶上的那个替补。其实，我是觉得给他们做替补的工作和我做群演的工作同样重要，但总之，我不是很在意这种事。于是，每当他们觉得某个主演估计有点不大靠谱的时候，就经常选我去做替补。我不想用这个词，但我确实感觉我“陷”进这种替补角色中了。高管们和制片人从不会在主要角色中考虑我，只会给我各种替补。我做过Phillip Schofield, Jason Donovan, ShaneRichie, Craig McLachlan等等很多主演的替，事实上他们没人不靠谱全都超可爱啦，但管理层第一次用他们的时候并不能确定这一点。总之，我就那样陷进了一成不变的替补生涯，我最后不得不开始说“不”，不再接替补工作。在此之前的十多年里，我一直不断的替补替补和替补没休过一天假。
JH: You went from Simon to Jesus didn’t you?
GC: I did yes. Again,that was when I was just breaking that mould. I’d turned work down for a good nine months or so and I wrote my first record deal then, for another artist – for a girl singer – I wrote a record for Phonogram, so I was nine months out of work – which was my first time out of work – which was when I was trying to break the mould.
And I was auditioning for Jesus and I had a bleed in my vocal chords, which has happened once in my entire – well maybe twice now – in my entire career. I’ve got a natural varicose vein in my vocal chords and it always get quite hoarse – husky – when,you know, if I’m tired. Couldn’t finish the audition process. And because they said ‘oh you should be in the show’, they gave me Simon without auditioning,and then I took over Jesus after that.
GC: I did yeah. We ended up – in fact the same production went – well the same director and staff– we did it three times with her, the West End one – the one we’re talking about – then we made the film of it that came out for the millennium – which was a slightly different production, different designer – and then that went to Broadway.
GC: Yeah, I did yeah. I always have the thought process, if I take notice of the awards – the odd award – that maybe I’d been fortunate to be given, I’d also have to take notice of the awards I was ignored by, so I tend to just… not even think about it.
JH: Ironically Glenn, some of your early TV roles you were playing ‘Jesus’ weren’t you?
GC: Yeah I did, I played…Jesus was a film, it was a film called Nine Lives, by Simon Monjack, which was nine men and women in a drugs rehab centre. Privileged people – rich people – who found their way into narcotic or alcohol abuse or whatever, and it was called Nine Lives and I played a character called Jesus, but obviously it was spelled Jesus. So I played Jesus, then Jesus, and then Jesus again, which was three different versions of a character.
约翰：格伦，很好玩的是，好些你早期的影视角色中也是出演的“耶稣”对吗？
卡特：是的，我在一部 Simon Monjack导演的电影Nine Lives中演过一个叫“耶稣”的角色，那部电影是讲九个在药物滥用康复中心的人们的故事，他们是人生赢家，但他们也是药物或酒精滥用者，我演的是其中一个叫耶稣的人。因为我演过耶稣，然后又演过耶稣，接着再演过耶稣，尽管它们仨只是同一部剧同一个角色的三个不同的版本，但总之，这个耶稣也找上了我，虽然这个角色只是名字叫耶稣而已。
JH: When you went to The Bill, it wasn’t Jesus, I think it was a guy called Scott Lewis, you did a one-off in The Bill…
GC: Yes, gosh yeah, you’ve done your research on that, yeah. I did yes, it was a double episode that was eventually edited down to one episode, yeah.
GC: They were fantastic, and they were a great place for actors like me to start learning about television, you know, because it had such a high turnover of people, you know, and people… like for example, Ben Richards was in The Bill and became a regular, he was… I think he was second cover to Kenickie in Grease when I was first cover, do you know what I mean? So, like it was great, like The Bill, and Doctors, and Adrian – who’s been on Doctors for ten years – was second cover Judas in Jesus Christ Superstar. So those regular TV shows, dramas, were like rep, they’ve almost taken the place of rep, where actors can go in and play a small role,and maybe go back, and you know, to learn their trade in television. They were fantastic things, The Bill, so sad when it ended.
JH: Doctors, you mentioned, you did Doctors didn’t you?
GC: Yeah I did an episode of Doctors…
JH: Hollyoaks?
GC: Yeah I did Hollyoaks. They’re just great ways to learn your trade you know, to learn… they’re such a different environment. I mean my drama teacher used to say ‘there’s no such thing as overacting, it’s good acting and bad acting, you’re either good or you’re bad, she used to say. But I don’t actually think that’s true, I think if you look at – for example, some of Tom Cruise’s early auditions that you can see on Youtube and stuff, if you look at those – however good Tom Cruise maybe, he wasn’t then. But it’s not that he can’t act, it’s the style, he’s not got the style down. And working in theatre, it’s a different style. It’s a slightly more heightened style than it is on television or film. To have somewhere to go to learn how to refine yourself and how small you have to be, it’s like talking to a microphone. When you’re talking into a microphone you have to imagine you’re whispering into someone’s ear, not on stage where you’re projecting something, do you see what I mean? It’s just all different styles and to have programmes like The Bill, Hollyoaks, Doctors, where they take lots and lots of actors from all walks of acting, from musical theatre, from (?), you know, dancers who’ve never acted can go in there, and just play a part because they’re good enough for the role– or else they wouldn’t have got it – and learn their style, it’s so important. So important.
JH: You played Jack the Ripper didn’t you, at one point?
GC: Yes I did, very briefly, in…
JH: Was it Psychoville?
GC: Pscyhoville, yes I was trying to think of the name of it, yes Psychoville.Yeah, it was fabulous, great fun.
约翰：你也演过开膛手杰克对吧？
卡特：对，只演过很短一段时间，是在……
约翰：是在《疯城记》里?
卡特：对，是在《疯城记》里演的。我刚刚在努力回想它的名字，是的，那是个很棒的剧，我演得很开心。
泽(转)西(型)男(逗)孩(比)
JH: And you’ve faced Loose Women, you’ve been on Loose Women haven’t you?
GC: Only as a Jersey Boy, I would always like to have been interviewed,‘cause it really annoys me when they go ‘you know what men are like’… really annoys me, do you know what I mean? Like ‘they can’t talk about their feelings’… used to drive me nuts! But I’ve never been interviewed on there, no we just went on as the Jersey Boys.
JH: Yes. Talking of Jersey Boys, you played Tommy DeVito in that didn’t you?
GC: Yes, I was the original Tommy…so fortunate to get that role,‘cause I was up for Bob the pianist, and the writer in there. I was up for a different part altogether… which I wasn’t right for at all. And I walked in there, and the American casting director – the casting director in Britain is Jill Green but they were working in conjunction with the original American casting directors – and I learnt, I think, three or four scenes, and a piano piece to play the piano.
I walked in and she said ‘oh my word, no, you’re not a Bob, you’re a Tommy. Take this script and come back in half an hour’. So I had to quickly learn the best I could, read and learn three scenes in half an hour and went back and then… I somehow got it, which I couldn’t believe! When they said ‘do you want to go up for the Jersey Boys?’No! It sounded to me like a strip group, you know, like the Chippendales, the Jersey Boys! It just sounded to me like that! So I didn’t know about it, and as soon I started getting into it – and catch some clips on Youtube – what a phenomenal script and brilliantly put together musical that is. And I was fortunate enough to be the original Tommy.
JH: Were you a Four Season’s fan before you went in?
GC: I didn’t realise I was. Like I didn’t know…
JH: You knew all the songs…
GC: Yes. You know, ‘Oh What a Night’ was one of my favourite songs as a ten year old, and there were some amazing songs they did that I didn’t know were theirs. I’d heard them over the years and thought ‘what a fantastic songs that is’, but I didn’t know that it was theirs, ‘cause so many of their songs were covered. So I knew their songs sung by other people mostly, when I found out it was them I couldn’t believe it.
约翰：你在进入泽西男孩剧组之前是四季乐队的粉丝吗？
卡特：我没意识到我是，就像我不知道……
约翰：你知道它家所有歌……
卡特：对，你知道，他家的Oh What a Night是我十岁的时候最喜欢的歌之一。还有好多他家的超棒的歌我听了几十年但一直不知道原来是他们的，因为，你知道，他们的歌被很多人翻唱过，而我经常是听的翻唱的版本，于是，当我发现那些歌原来是他们家的时候，我简直不敢相信自己的眼睛。
从棋王谈流行音乐作曲
JH: And Chess was such an odd subject for a musical, but it was a hit musical
GC: That, I still say that Chess the musical is quite possibly the best score I’d ever heard, and it is in my view the most sophisticated musically, considering it was written by two pop writers, who write naff pop songs. But they aren’t, they’re incredibly sophisticated pop songs. ABBA are amazing, sophisticated writers, the structure of the way they write etcetera, from the way they write.
I’ve had four record deals as a writer, and if I could write one song of which they’ve written thirty, I would be so happy. They’re so sophisticated. But, the musical theatre… Chess – and I know they’ve done another couple of [?] – is incredibly sophisticated. I love it, and I put that album on my headphones and listen to it – and I don’t listen to musical theatre – it is so fabulous. And all the songs you know from it –the pop songs – are the worst songs on it. The worst pieces of music on it.
JH: When they were on Eurovision and sang that original song ‘Waterloo’,you never expected it to develop, because it was okay, it was sort of song written for that really wasn’t it?
GC: It was, and because of the roots of where their musical education came from, they changed the format of pop music. Pop music was written, obviously it was started by Bill Haley really, the sort of rock and roll style and formats, first chorus, first bridge, chorus, middle eight etcetera, so it’s a bit boring perhaps. But ABBA, they did… if you look at them they had five sections to most of their songs. No other writers had ever done that before – no other pop writers – so ABBA changed and developed the formatting of pop music, which is incredibly difficult to do.
JH: When I look back on my life, I started, sort of ‘How Much was That Doggie in the Window’ and all that stuff, and then Presley and Bill Haley and then the Beatles and ABBA, looking back, it’s been a fantastic time for music.
GC: Yes, within one full lifetime. Absolutely, incredible.
JH: You’ve done a few Royal Variety Shows, you’ve done about half adozen at least…
GC: Yeah, five or six yeah. And a Children’s Royal Variety I think is in there amongst the five or six, yes. I’ve been just really fortunate‘cause the shows I’ve been in have often been original casts – not always – and they’ve been hit shows. I’ve just been very fortunate in that way, what can I say.
JH: I think everyone you interview Glenn – everyone I’ve interviewed over the years – they’ve always had that stroke of luck somewhere, which you need don’t you?
GC: I think you’ve just got to be present, in the sense that, like if someone said to me ‘would you do this show for nothing, we can’t afford for you to get paid’ and I think the show is worth doing, I would do it for nothing. If I’m not working, I may as well be working and earning nothing, than not working, if the piece is a good piece. So I think you’ve got to be able, or certainly of the mind of ‘I’ve got to do this for my own development’ as well as ‘how much do I get paid’.
JH: Years ago, sort of acts or groups that supported top names, they often did a tour for virtually nothing, just to get established.
GC: Just to get the name out there, just to get the presence, just to get people talking.
约翰：很多年前，有好些刚出道的艺人或组合会零薪参与知名艺人的巡演，只求建立名声。
卡特：对，只求扩大知名度。
歌手的高光时刻和未竟的创作梦
JH: You write songs with your brother don’t you?
GC: I did. Scott now - he’s my younger brother - I started off literallywanting to be a writer, that’s what I wanted to do. That was the thing I thought I’d always do. I mean I was writing songs since I was nine years old, you know, best as I could into a tape machine. I couldn’t play an instrument yet, and started to learn the piano and stuff.
But my brother and I started to work together probably around when I was twenty-two, twenty-three, and we wrote a record deal together. We wrote about twenty songs, signed to Phonogram, with a singer - with another singer. Although I’ve been a singer all my life I never knew what style I should do, ‘cause I could do several different sounds and styles, and ‘cause I came from musical theatre, I didn’t really know who I was. So I worked with singers whocould one thing, that was them, that was their style, which I found easier to work with, writing for their sound. And we got a record deal in the end. The record deal didn’t work out, it was with Phonogram, and they fired their MD, and the heads of department rolled and we were put on hold and then our singer left the band…you know, all that sort of stuff…so it didn’t work out in the end. But Scott now, he’s one of the top sound engineers in live theatre in London.
JH: Is he?
GC: Yeah, he mixes Book of Mormon at the moment, and before that he did Superstar, Woman in White, Joseph…gosh, you name it…Matilda, everything.
JH: Some of your career highlights, Prince’s Trust Concert you did…
GC: Yes that’s right. I was artist liaison on that, that again was when I was working with Imagination, because they were performing in it, and I did the Prince’s Trust Concert, I was artist liaison… there was Phil Collins, who else was on… it was one of the most incredible things I ever saw. I’ll tell you about that ‘cause it’s really interesting - well I think it’s interesting - there was [?] on the coconut [?], Sade, Phil Collins, Imagination, Paul Young I think was there as well… I loved Phil Collins, covered some of his songs… and so I just happened to come around and sit in the Royal Albert Hall - huge big venue - and he was just playing a piano, so he was just there with his piano, no accompaniment apart from the piano.
When it came to his big moment in ‘In the Air Tonight’ where the drums come in - if you know the song - I kept thinking ‘how is he going to do that little drum break? There’s no drummer on stage, what’s he going to do?’ As he was singing it, as he was building up to it, he just did one held chord - stab chord - and the entire Albert Hall went ‘[drum noises]’… so everybody provided it. And it was such a magical moment, that he knew was going to happen - I’m sure he hoped it would happen - that just electrified all of the audience inthe whole place. And people screaming and shouting, applauding, it was an incredible moment to sit and witness, I mean it sent chills.
约翰：来聊聊你职业中的那些高光时刻吧，我记得你上过Prince’s Trust音乐会？
卡特：对，我是那场音乐会的artist liaison[是一种艺术管理类别的职位，没查到准确的对应中文]，那会我还在为Imagination乐队工作，因为乐队被受邀参加音乐会，于是我也参加了。那场音乐会去了很多人，Sade, Phil Collins, Imagination，印象中Paul Young应该也有去。我超喜欢Phil Collins，翻唱过他的好些歌，当时我恰巧在Royal Albert Hall里，看见他在台上独奏钢琴。然后他的光辉一幕出现了，他弹到了’In the Air Tonight’里应该有鼓点声插入进来的地方，我当时想“可台上没有鼓手啊，他该肿么办”，结果他弹唱到那里的时候发出了一个类似鼓点的尖锐声音，于是整个大厅里的人全都加入进来发出了那个类似鼓点的声音，那真是奇妙得仿佛魔法一样的时刻，他知道这会发生他希望这会发生而这真的发生了，整个大厅里的观众全都燃了起来，人们尖叫鼓掌，目睹整个过程的我被深深的震撼了。
JH: You did a Wembley rugby match too didn’t you?
GC: I did yeah, I think officially I think I was the last person tosing live at Wembley.
JH: Were you?
GC: It was the opening of the first professional world rugby championships I think. I was playing Jesus and I had to sing ‘Jerusalem’, ‘God Save the Queen’ and something else I can’t remember, and Alison Jiear, who’s a fantastic musical theatre singer - sang the Australian national anthem, ‘cause it was England and Australia, so she sang before me, and I sang afterwards, ‘cause it was in England, so I think… and then once that competition ended, the old Wembley stadium was then closed. So I think… unless anybody sang after me, but I think I was the last person to sing live at Wembley stadium.
JH: Jerusalem always makes me cry that song, it’s just one of those things, you know…it is that type of song isn’t it?
JH: You performed at the Tony Awards too didn’t you?
GC: Yes, I was fortunate enough to be invited to sing ‘Gethsemane’ for the Tony Awards. It was at Radio City Music Hall, which I think is the biggest stage in the world. It is literally like a football field, hugely wide stage, and it was a packed house. It was a phenomenal experience, wonderful. Televised to all of North America, and I don’t know why in Britain we kind of only just occasionally do those things well. Like the Olivier Awards, I wish they were televised just like the Tonys are.
JH: When you were doing that, did you for one minute think of how many people were probably watching?
GC: I just thought of ‘don’t bugger this up’. Even though I’d sung Gethsemane a thousand times, younever know where your brain’s going to go in a given moment, you know? You can be incredibly disciplined and still, your brain just sort of fractures for a few seconds, it’s a strange phenomenon - especially if you start thinking like that. So yeah, all I can remember thinking is ‘don’t bugger this up’.
JH: And it’s such a great song.
GC: Ah it’s incredible. You know, I think - I’ve said it many times - that I think it’s the best song ever written for a leading man in the musical theatre genre to sing, by a long way. Dramatically, it’s journey; melodically, what it demands of the actor, the singer; what it demands emotionally… I think it’s by far the most taxing and the best song ever.
约翰：你还在托尼奖上演唱过对吧？
卡特：对，我非常幸运的受邀去托尼奖上演唱客西马尼，在Radio City Music Hall，我觉得那是世界上最大的舞台，字面上的大，台子超宽差不多有一个足球场大。那是一个现象级的时刻，演出是对全北美电视直播的。我不知道为啥我们英国不肿么干这种事儿，比如奥利弗奖，如果也像美国的托尼奖一样电视直播多好。
GC: Yes, I play them all badly, that’s the thing. I play them only for my own pleasure and to write really. I’d spent my musical sort of life learning to write and format, how to structure a song and stuff, as opposed to learning to play songs. So I can play a dozen instruments, but only what I write. I’ve never learned to play other people’s music, I can improvise on them but that’s about it.
JH: Glenn if you could write for one particular person, say if you had a stunning song, who would you like to record it? Someone you’d love to write for?
GC: Yes, I’d love to write for London Grammar. I think London Grammar areone of the most exciting, beautifully structured, beautiful, melodic, wonderful singer bands around, I think they’re incredible. And if people don’t know who London Grammar is, I would suggest that everybody goes out and gets their first or second album. I mean obviouslybest to start at the beginning, so I’d say first first and second second. But it’s such beautiful music, and it’s modern, and it’s just… it’s wonderful.
GC: It is. It is fun. I mean it’s not Che Guevara, I don’t think - although I’m dressed like Che Guevara - I don’t think Che Guevara ever sang anote. It’s interesting, he’s not really part of the story - he’s the narrator - so he’s not having any dramatic moments really, with Eva or anything like that. He’s just commenting and guiding the audience through the process.
JH: Shows like Blood Brothers, you know, they’ve got a narrator haven’t they? So it’s interesting isn’t it, when a performer comes on and sort of guides us through the story really.
GC: Yeah, I mean I talk directly to the audience in their eyes, which is unusual for the theatre obviously, ‘cause usually you pretend the audience aren’t there. But Che is talking directly to them for the majority of the time, almost like the continuity presenter of the show. Whereas Eva and Juan Peron don’t do that at all, or any of the other characters. In fact Che is invisible to most people on stage all of the time.
JH: You’re off to Germany aren’t you?
GC: Yes, we’re doing a couple of weeks. I did Jesus in Germany about three years ago - did six, seven weeks there - which was fantastic. We did a tour of the opera houses, and this - Evita - is going there for just a couple of weeks in January.
GC: I’ve been writing, as I said, all my life. Pop music has been particularly irritating, in the sense that I’ve had several record deals and they’ve all fallen through for one thing or another, and none of them have been down to the music, which has been incredibly frustrating. And it’s felt almost like I’ve wasted years of my life doing this.
So I think the thing I really want to do more of is write. And I wrote a musical, back - gosh, a few years ago now - and it was with a West End producer. And for a couple of years, they were very interested and they wanted to put it on in fact, and it was just deemed as too controversial - it had lines from the Quran in it, and various other things - and they just thought it was a bit too controversial in what it was saying. So I wrote another musical, which is a traditional historic piece, it’s kind of Celtic music…but it’s areally interesting story, so I’m hoping I can focus more on that.
JH: Whatever you choose to do, I hope you fulfil what you choose to do.
JH: Great to talk to you. So you’re with Evita, Southsea Kings, 13th to the 17th November, and then of course, Germany.
GC: Yes.
JH: Can I thank you for your time, on a busy day, I know you’ve got two shows today haven’t you?
GC: Yes we do, two shows. I warm up a lot, so I tend to just spend my mornings warming up.
JH: Do you?
GC: I’m not really a natural… I mean I’ve been singing all my life really, but I’m not a natural singer, in the sense that I can’t wake up in the morning and immediately sing. Whereas Mike - who plays Juan Peron in this - literally just does it, just sing. He’s just got the most beautiful voice you’ll ever hear, and he’s a fantastic singer. Whereas for me I always have to work hard on it, so I warm up for about two hours before I do the official warm up here.
JH: I love yourstubble and your hair…
GC: Oh I hate the stubble, I don’t like it! I feel like a vagrant, especially coupled with my long hair, I feel like I should be living under a bush and not… you know what I mean? I just don’t like it. As soon as this job is over it’ll be coming off.
JH: You could still play Jesus as you look today couldn’t you?
GC: Ironically I never had a beard playing Jesus, not when I was on the film.